Alaysia Brown: We're just really excited to have everyone on and to be in conversation with Anne. I had so much fun prepping for this conversation. Um, and I should start by mentioning also that my name is Alaysia Brown and I'm the community lead here at Diversify by Design. I will be guiding this conversation. Um, and yeah, it's the room is getting really packed really quickly so we can actually go ahead and kick things off.

Um, so like I mentioned, my name is Alaysia Brown. I'm excited to welcome everyone to our Ask Me Anything event series hosted by Diversify by Design. It is so good to see such a great group of people joining us tonight. And again, just thank you everyone for being here this evening. Um, like I mentioned, I lead community here at D by D and I will be your host for the conversation tonight.

Now, some of you may know a ton about D by D while some of you may not know anything at all about the coalition and are only here for Ann and that is fine. We support that. We love that. Um, but for those of you with no background information, I'm excited Tell you more about D by D and just why we even decided to develop this AMA series.

So diversify by design is a coalition of organizations and individuals who joined forces back in 2000, 2021, which I cannot believe that's almost what 3, almost 4 years ago, um, to create a more racially diverse and inclusive design industry. One of D by D's critical goals is to create opportunities for all.

For historically excluded young people to learn more about design and to connect with successful designers who look like them. We are proud to platform designers who champion diversity, equity, inclusion, and belonging, and appreciate their willingness to answer questions about design and their life and the things that they've really dedicated their careers to creating.

And with that, I am so excited. So delighted to be joined by the and H Barry. She's probably like rolling her eyes. Like, please stop. I think she's so phenomenal. Um, and I actually don't do this very often. This is our third, I think, AMA and I normally do not read bios, but I'm going to the short version and I'm sorry, I just have to, I'm excited about it.

I'm going to read the, the, the, the short bio for, for those of you who are just getting to know Anne. Um, and so in H Barry is a writer, designer. And the director of the school of design at the University of Illinois in Chicago. Her research focuses on race representation and educational pedagogy in the field of design, and her published writings include the virtual design classroom for communication arts magazine, and the black designers identity.

For the inaugural issue of the recognized anthology featuring commentary from indigenous people and people of color. She is co creator of the award winning project, ongoing matter, democracy, design, and the Mueller report and managing editor of the black experience and design. Identity expression and reflection and anthology centering a range of perspectives that spotlight teaching practices, research stories and conversations from a black African diaspora lens.

So welcome. Welcome. Welcome. Welcome. And I'm so happy. I think I speak for all of us here when I say we're excited that you're here and we're looking forward to being conversation. So how are you? Let me just kick off with that. How are you this evening? I,

Anne H. Berry: I am well and thank you for having me. Um, and thank you for, for reaching out.

And, um, I too have enjoyed, um, getting to know you a little bit, Alaysia through our, our previous conversation. So I'm, I'm well and happy to be here.

Alaysia Brown: I love that. Well, I know there are a lot of students who are here. So I'm just going to like get into the conversation. A lot of students of life, students of the university.

Um, but so many people who are just excited to learn more from you. So I'm going to just kick us off with this first question around mentorship. And before I do that, it's important for me to add, this is not just a conversation between myself and Anne. This is a conversation between All of us. It's not just a leisure acts, anything, although I will do that.

I will talk for an hour straight if you let me. So cut me off in the chat, come off of mute and say, excuse me. I think I have something to add here and add to the conversation. This is not just about myself and Ann. It's about all of you who are here. Um, but I will kick us off with this first question. So, and mentorship has played a significant role in your career.

Can you share some experiences? Mentorship, um, has helped shape your path and why you believe it's so vital for emerging designers and especially students of color.

Anne H. Berry: Absolutely. I mean, it's something I talk about a lot. Um, my students have, have heard me say a lot about it, um, partly because I, I have felt the impact of mentorship in my own career.

Um, one important turning point for me was graduate school. Um, I attended graduate school because I, I actually wanted more schooling in design. I wasn't, I didn't attend graduate school because I was interested in teaching. So I was really focused on just Like more study about design and, um, it wasn't until one of my professors, um, the late Eric may, um, said to me, um, and I did grad school at Kent State University.

I always like to give a shout out to Kent State. Um, but Eric may in his gentle way said to me, you know, I. I think you ought to think about teaching. And I was like, no, I don't want that responsibility. Um, he's like, you ought to think about teaching. And, um, yeah, it's, it's to know Eric is to know that he, um, was like a very gentle spirited kind of person and spoke, spoke in that way as well.

But I just listened and paid attention very closely. So, um, that obviously stayed with me. I mean, I come from a family of educators. I just didn't see myself as one until somebody said, you ought to, you ought to think about it. Um, and I think that that is just one example of how powerful mentorship can be.

I think oftentimes, Well, at least sometimes, um, especially if you can't necessarily imagine yourself in a particular role, all it takes is for somebody to say something to you, and that stays with you. It like plants a seed, um, and you start to think about it. Well, well, what if I, what if I can do this? Um, and then maybe I should give it a try.

So that, that's one specific example, um, where mentorship has been really important. Um, and that, that's an example of like the relationship I have with a professor. But I would also say I think mentorship exists in, um, with among my peers, among people that I consider to be peers, colleagues, friends even.

Because I think that provides a kind of another kind of support. So I guess I should also say that I see mentorship is operating at a variety of levels, right? And I think I also think it's important to say that, you know, mentorship shouldn't stop. Um, in my opinion, it shouldn't matter kind of where you're at in your career.

Um, I think it's important to have support and advocacy wherever you're at. Um, so that's, that's part of it too. It's not just something that like when you're an undergrad or a new student that you, you know, you need mentorship to get to the next level. And it isn't even necessarily about getting to another level.

I think it's about having support and advocacy. Um, because I think, you know, the design industry can be really challenged, challenging at times. Academia can be really challenging at times. So it's, it's creating, um, for lack of a better word, ecosystem of support for yourself. Um, but, but I think it then also becomes really important to demonstrate mentorship to other people.

Um, so I think one of the things I'm, I'm trying to be really, um, aware of, especially now that I'm, I've been tenured, um, an associate professor, um, is being really aware of, of people who are, um, behind, coming up behind me and that I'm extending opportunities to other people. Because I think sometimes in, in an academic context, you know, we get so focused on our own work and research.

But we're really among a community of other educators of faculty, staff, a campus community. And I think it's really important to kind of set the ego aside, at least, at least at some time at times and say, you know what, This is something I'm really interested in doing, but I know somebody else who would be really great for this opportunity or who could really benefit and would really enjoy having this particular experience.

So I'm trying to, like I said, just be more aware and cognizant of that, that I don't have to do everything anymore. That it's, it's actually really important for me to help share and pass opportunities on to other people.

Alaysia Brown: Yeah, I love this like layered definition of mentorship that you have because when I think about it, the first thing that I think about is, you know, an older cousin, someone who has done things that I've wanted to do.

And it's like, this is who I go connect with for advice. That's kind of where it stops for me. So I love this idea of like, no, it's not just, you know, this, this relationship that you have with someone. Who has been there done that it's your peer it's somebody who's supportive it's someone who speaks up in the room when you're not there.

So I love like this idea of this layer definition of mentorship. One other thing that I was excited to ask you about is, like you mentioned with your new position. How do you manage. You know, mentorship now that you're in a leadership role. So like, what is your approach to mentorship now that you're in a leadership role?

What advice would you give to those who might not have immediate access to mentors also?

Anne H. Berry: Well, I think one of the things that can be really tricky about mentorship is that it's, it's organic in nature. Like, I think there are ways to create formal mentorship and I think, um, especially in, in academic settings and educational settings, um, it's important to have.

Some formal version of that, but I think that it also has a very organic nature to it. Um, so we don't always necessarily, you know, set up mentorship relationships in a, in a super formal way, I guess. Yeah. What I'm trying to say is that having a, having a formal relationship with a mentor can be really important.

Alaysia Brown: Yeah.

Anne H. Berry: Um, but, but not everybody has, has access to that. Um, it's a little early to say how I will approach mentorship in this role because I'm still finding that out. Um, what I can say is that I feel really lucky to be at UIC. Um, I'm among a lot of really accomplished people, some of whom are on this, who are on the zoom call.

Um, but I think, I guess the, the, the question that I, and I've started to have conversations with, with faculty and staff. And I think the question that I try to. Um, the forefront of those conversations is how can I support, um, the work that you're doing? How can I advocate for you? Um, are there things that you, um, want to do that you haven't been able to do?

So it's like, I don't want to say that it's goal setting, but it's, it's thinking about, um, what can I do now in the short term? And then long term, um, what are some things that, that I can do or that we can kind of work on together to ensure that, that people, um, are able to spread their wings in the way they want to.

Again, I think it comes back to like, you know, just because you might be secure in a particular position and you're really good at it. Yeah. I think sometimes it's easy to take people for granted. Um, so and so is really good at that job. So you're just kind of like, don't bother to ask them how they're doing, or are they happy in that role?

Yeah. So I think, um, yeah, those are the things I'm thinking about, like, how can I really advocate for people, but, but I, I really hope that as I get to know faculty, um, that they see me and trust me as somebody that they can have some, um, forthright conversations with about, um, The things that they want to do.

Um, so yeah, I think it's, it's, it's, it's an organic sort of, I don't want to say messy in a bad way. I think it's, it's just sort of an organic thing that you kind of have to feel your way through. Um, but, but again, at the core, I hope that I'm here to help support advocate, um, for, for other people in the ways that help them do the things that they want to do.

Alaysia Brown: Absolutely. And there's one thing for all of the students who are on that we talked about when we had our chat that I thought was so impactful. And it reminded me, it's funny, my sister just hopped on this call. And I think about her when you and I had this conversation, this idea of hustling and doing the little things like going to office hours.

Um, she was always someone who would tell me that they went to office hours. And so one of the things that I wanted to ask was, what advice would you give, like I said, to those who may not, might not have immediate access to mentorship, but they're looking to build those relationships. I know I feel like in like those freshmen one on one classes, it's like, go and ask someone to be your mentor.

And then the person goes and like, can you be my mentor? And they're like, yeah. Taking in their boots and the teacher's like, well, what do you need help with? And I'm like, I don't know. I just, I'm supposed to be doing these things. So what is your advice? Like I said, I know you mentioned that one tip, but about office hours, what are those things that students can be doing to begin to develop those mentor relationships, even if they're immediately those little things that play out and help you to build a relationship in the longterm.

With someone who can eventually become a mentor.

Anne H. Berry: Yeah, well, so the first thing is so so just to go back to some things I said earlier, I mean, I talked about like the like a peer group level of mentorship. I'm part of the reason I mentioned that is because I like early on in my design education, I didn't really have a mentor.

I didn't really know that I needed to be looking for one either really. I don't, I don't actually know what I thought at the time, but I didn't really have a, um, like a design community per se. So when I talk about mentorship, I'm also talking about just like cultivating that community of, of, of support.

Um, So, um, to get back to your, to your original question, um, it, I would also say that, um, and I'm, I'm, I have my teaching faculty hat on now when I respond to this question, but like teachers have office hours for a reason.

Alaysia Brown: Yeah.

Anne H. Berry: Um, you know, we, we want to see students, most of us, I think all, I think all of us want to see students.

Um, but I can probably count on two hands the number of times students really sought me out during office hours. And I think, you know, I understand sometimes that can be really challenging too, especially, you know, I'm thinking about, um, maybe students who are completely new and they don't really know anybody, um, or, you know, don't know quite what to expect from a college experience, might not necessarily know how important it is to seek, um, or to talk to, talk to people outside of class.

Um, but what I can tell you is that, um, When, when students come during office hours, it's just one example, or even students who want to chat after class. I will add that on there too, because that, you know, there were, there were a handful of students who would consistently want to chat with me after class, um, which I really love, um, that says to me that this is a student who is really, um, not just like looking for support or affirmation, but really wanting, um, opportunity, really taking advantage of opportunities.

And that then sends a signal to us as faculty, um, that this is somebody who is really making the effort and whatever they need. We want to help them. So I want to be careful in saying that it's it's not a favoritism thing. Um, it's just one of those situations where you know, I I had a student at CSU who Um was an international student and she was so great She asked so many questions and so there were there were oftentimes where I said, you know Well, let's hold that until after after class and we can kind of talk one on one Um, there's a level of like dedication and earnestness there You And I think, in a way, it's really, I'm gonna I'm going to use the word flatter, but it's not quite the word I, the most accurate word, but it's a little flattering, you know, for a faculty member when a student really is seeking our support and advice and feedback.

Um, that's really meaningful. And so that becomes this reciprocal thing then like a student is really dedicated, earnest. Um, Then, of course, I'm going to help you. Right. So, again, it's, it's not a, it's not that some students are being, um, that, that treated, you know, better than other students. But I think it creates, um, it creates this kind of relationship where, um, you know, I'm an educator.

Of course, I'm going to help any student that asks for it. And so I will say that I understand, too, that not every student. necessarily knows this right or understands how important it is to seek me out outside of class. Um, so it's one of those things that, um, even during, um, my last year at, uh, teaching at, at CSU, I really tried to Find better ways of encouraging more students to seek me out.

Um, just so that it's more I'm not articulating this very well, but it's it's an equity thing, right? Um, I want to make sure that i'm trying to create as much Opportunity for as many students as I can Um, but that but there is an extent to which it's up to students like they you know They have to take some initiative And I think by taking initiative by seeking out faculty Um That communicates something, right?

That I'm, I'm working really hard. I want to do well. Help me and we're as educators. We're in the job of helping people. So,

Alaysia Brown: so, you know, so I think does that does that answer your question guys answer my question. And like I said, it really leans into this point of, I love that you, you mentioned that it's an equity thing, just creating the opportunities for people to know the importance of it.

That does answer my question. Absolutely. Um, like I mentioned, this isn't just Alaysia X and anything. This is all of us X and anything. So, um, I'll pause and say, does anybody want to come off of mute? If you're shy, hop in the chat, um, and add a little two cents, add your commentary, any questions, feel free to do so right now.

Guest: Hi, everyone. Hi, and this is Noah faculty at UIC. Um, really appreciate your thoughts on mentorship. I like to think of mentorship is kind of like building a friendship. And I feel like that's what I'm hearing you say, right? It's like, just like building a relationship in any capacity. If you have those contact points or those conversations.

And especially if they're meaningful, then I think that's really what's cultivated, and I'm enjoying hearing you talk about that.

Anne H. Berry: Yeah, I'll, I'll just, hi Noah. I'll just also say that I think, and part of the reason I, um, talk a lot about this is because there was a period of my career where I didn't, I didn't, as I, I think I mentioned this earlier, I didn't have that support.

And I think that one of the hardest. Aspects of being a designer. Um, is, is feeling siloed and feeling alone. And I've, I've had that feeling. And I recognize now with, with the experience I have with the connections I've built over time, how a younger me would have benefited from. Um, you know, building more relationships with my peers early on.

I mean, I had lots, you know, and friends in college, but I didn't really build those, um, professional or, like, design centered relationships and friendships that I think would have, um, helped me. Help me down the road. Um, so, and I, I just know that feeling of feeling isolated, right? How difficult that is. Um, and, you know, hindsight is 2020.

Knowing what I know now, there are lots of things, of course, I would have probably done differently. Um, but in. But I don't have, you know, I can't go back in time, but I can sort of just share my experience and really encourage students and even faculty staff, um, you know, the relationships that you develop with your colleagues, um, with with other people in your field, um, are really an important way to help, um, provide that support.

And I think we all need that, right? We need that connection. We need that sense of community. So, yes.

Alaysia Brown: Awesome. Thank you, Noah, for that question. Um, something else we wanted to ask you and you've spoken about the importance of just being willing to learn. How do you feel that attitude has contributed to your success?

And why is it crucial for students to adopt a similar mindset?

Anne H. Berry: Well, I will, I will start by saying that, um, I'm, I'm the kind of person who I enjoy learning for the most part, right? I come from a family of educators. And so. I'm I enjoy learning about new things. Um, but I've also had experiences where I felt very uncomfortable in class.

Like, I just didn't want to like I had Um, a terrible pre algebra teacher, which, you know, the fact that I still remember how that experience made me feel, you know, decades later. Um, and once, once I became an educator, I knew that I, I didn't ever want my students to have that feeling of like, um, and so, Actually, Elijah, can you go ahead and ask, ask the question again?

Alaysia Brown: For sure. So just you talking about this attitude of like always being willing to learn. Oh, yes. Yes. Yeah. Like how has it contributed to like the success that you've had? And just for students, why is it crucial that they kind of attack things with that same lens?

Anne H. Berry: Yeah, so, so what I was going to say was, um, I think sometimes it can be hard for students, um, if they don't feel comfortable in the classroom.

Alaysia Brown: Yeah.

Anne H. Berry: And there could be things going on at home. There could be things going on in people's personal lives. And so I think that's a part of the consideration, right? Um, about just like the ability to learn or being able to learn in an environment where you feel comfortable learning. I think that's kind of a piece of this conversation.

But again, having grown up in a family of educators, I think that, um, I don't, I don't know if this thing can be passed down genetically, but I enjoy learning new things. Um, but I also feel like I got one of those genes where I'm not afraid to ask questions and I'm not afraid to acknowledge that there are things that I don't know.

Um, I think Probably most of us have been in situations where, you know, it's kind of embarrassing sometimes if you don't know a name that somebody is dropping or there's something you think maybe you should know and you don't know, um, and I, I try to, you know, whenever I have those kinds of thoughts, I just try to put them to the side because I think Um, it's really important to acknowledge the things I don't know.

Alaysia Brown: Yeah.

Anne H. Berry: I really do. I feel like, you know, I'm in this leadership position now, um, but that doesn't mean that suddenly I know everything there is to know. I mean, Sharon, who's on this call can sort of attest to that, right? Like, there's, I just don't know everything. I don't. I'm new to this institution. I'm new to the position.

So there's a lot of learning that has to happen. And I think part of. This conversation about learning is also about a level of like authenticity about who I am. Um, I, I, I think people who know me best would agree that I'm not somebody who comes with a lot of pretense about things. I mean, I, I sort of am who I am.

And, um, I'm a curious person. I like to ask a lot of questions. And, um, I think in terms of how, how this has helped me in my career. I think it just opens up opportunities like asking questions. Um, you know, I was actually at a faculty orientation today and learn to know a few new people here at the university who are in completely different areas of work and study.

And I think there's some really great connections you can make with people, um, just by having conversations. So I think, you know, did I benefit from, from, you know, having these conversations with new people I'd never met before? I would say yes, because I learned a few things about my new colleagues. I don't know if I'll see them again.

The campus is a big place. Um, but I feel sort of enriched by just, just, Having these tidbits into other people's experiences. So I think part of it is just, um, like, uh, appreciating the diversity that exists in the world and being curious and being willing to explore things. Um, and, you know, taking advantage of opportunities.

I think all of those things for me are tied into like what it means to learn.

Alaysia Brown: Absolutely. I love that. I love that. And everyone, like I said, just feel free to get your questions together and just know that at any point we can pause the conversation and we're excited to have your your input as well. One thing that I think that we talk about at D by D is community.

We talk about community a lot. We talk about how it is impossible to get. Anywhere as a party of one. And if you do get there, you're going to get there tattered and battered, and it's not going to be pretty, you know, it's, it's so much easier to just, you know, take someone with you, ask a question to your point.

And so one question about community building and when you and I talk, you mentioned that community building is a direct reason that you are where you are today. And so I'd love if you could elaborate on just how building and relying on a community has influenced your journey, um, in the design world.

Anne H. Berry: Yeah. So again, this actually goes back to the experience I described earlier, where I know what it's like to feel, um, like an outsider, to feel siloed, disconnected. And so part of the reason, um, I, I talk a lot about community now is because I've, I've, I've also had this experience of trying to build it for myself because at some point I recognized, you know what, maybe what really what I'm missing is, is yeah, is other people.

And, um, I, I tend to be a collaborative minded person anyway. Um, and I also want to kind of be clear in saying, um, by way of a caveat that. That collaboration can be really messy and uncomfortable. And I'm the first person to acknowledge that. So when I talk about collaboration, it's not as though it's all like rainbows and flowers and happiness, um, you know, things can get really messy and intense, but, um, I've had a number of experiences now, like professional experiences where like.

It's really hard to put into words just how like meaningful and wonderful it's been to work on something really hard with other people and see what you can accomplish. So, you know, there it's important to have, you know, accomplishments, things that you are able to do on your own. But I think that there's a kind of power in work and in the things that you can accomplish with other people.

And of course, you know, the black experience and design is one of those. Um, examples, it's, it's easy to point to, um, you know, it was, there were periods where it was really messy. And I say that because, you know, this is, this book project from beginning to end happened in a pandemic. And, um, to this day, I haven't met everybody in person.

I think Lesley Ann Orwell is like, like the one person I have yet to meet in person, which feels really weird. Um, And it was like a really terrible time for the country. Like there was a lot going on that was really hard and really difficult. And so, um, Part of what was really important about that particular collaboration is that we were all feeling isolated because of the pandemic.

Um, there were national Black Lives Matter protests happening. And so it became this like kind of group therapy for us, um, to see, um, black and brown faces on the Zoom calls. And, and so while we were talking about our feelings and, um, Like this project we were working on together. It provided a level of like emotional support in order to just do the work because there's an extent to which it was really hard work.

Um, you know, this book is like one of the most, um, important things that I've, I've done. Um, Partly because I, you know, there was so much time and energy put into it, but it really was a labor of love. Um, but that also means that there was, there were a lot of challenges, a lot of logistical challenges, you know, with 70 contributors.

Like it just, um, you know, yeah, it was very messy at times, but it speaks to like the beauty of the, the things that can evolve from, from really challenging experiences. Um, especially given the circumstances and, you know, like the sense of accomplishment that comes afterward and being able to enjoy, um, the thing that was created with the editorial team and with, with the contributors.

I mean, that. That I can't even put into words how meaningful that was.

Alaysia Brown: Yeah. Yeah. I think a lot of the D by D team can relate. I know personally, I've been working with D by D for the past year and I'm like, I have never met Andrea in person. I haven't met Chris in person. I see Sharon at board meetings all the time.

We haven't met in person, but the amount of amazing work that has been done through this collaboration, um, has been amazing. Probably beyond, I think, what everyone, you know, could have hoped for. So, um, yeah, I mean, like I said, here at D by D we prioritize community and I'm, I'm always very proud of that.

And you know, the work that comes out of that. So, all righty. So again, I'm going to ask, and I won't stop asking until I hear from someone in this amazing group of people. I am not here alone. Let's add to the conversation. What are you all thinking? Where is your head? What are you gaining from this conversation so far?

I need to know,

Chris DeSantis: Chris. Well, okay, I'll chime in. So, Anne, as you were talking, this is more of a stream of consciousness here, but when you were talking about the experience that you had with your algebra teacher.

Anne H. Berry: And then algebra. Yep.

Chris DeSantis: Yep. Okay. So the In education, it is not unusual, unfortunately, for it to be somewhat shame based.

Yeah. And You ask the question and you're, the response is you're stupid and that gets exponentially exploded when you're a person of color, when you're a woman. And how do you recover from that? How? Yeah, because it's, it is a traumatic thing. You've held on to, you could probably envision, you, you've got that person in your mind's eye, right?

Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. And. How do you, how do you transition through that? What, what, what mechanisms, what tools did you employ? Do you use? Because Dollars to Donuts, there's at least one person, in addition to yourself and me, that has had this experience and carries it with them. And that has influenced their ability to be curious, to raise their hand, to not know.

So yeah, any insights you could share.

Anne H. Berry: So, so, um, yes, to all the things you just said and, um, you know, in this particular case, like the way I tried to deal with it was to take more math classes. Ironically, I was like, I have to get over this fear of math. I have to get over it. I have to get over it. And, um, somewhat ironically, I have a brother who's a, who was a math and physics major in college.

Um, so, right. Um, but I never, I never did get over my fear of math. And to this day, like numbers feel, I don't wanna say scary, but it's like. There's like a, um, uh, and I shouldn't say like numbers, you know, generally necessary, but it's like math things. Um, but I, you know, I kept taking math. And the thing is, I was never bad at math.

Like the fact that I tested into pre algebra in the seventh grade, when I, as a sixth grader, I tested into this pre algebra class, it took me a long time to understand that it wasn't my fault, that I'm not the one who can't understand math, that it was in fact the teacher who was shaming students and made, I was so anxious.

Like I would feign sickness to not have to go to school. Uh, that, that's how bad it was. And, um, you know, I think, you know, as I got older, I went on and did other things, but like, I, you know, I, I, the thing is I was a really good student or I tried to be a good student, right? Like grades were important to me.

I was one of those, Um, and so the hard part was that there was this one thing I couldn't do really well in that, that I just internalized that. So interestingly, um, when I, one of my early teaching positions was at my alma mater, Goshen College in Goshen, Indiana. And, um, I was engaged in like faculty development, um, workshops and, um, One of those groups included a faculty member at the same same institution who taught math, and we had this fascinating conversation I remember thinking if I had had a teacher like her, I would not have like.

Had these issues. Um, so I think I don't know what the solution is, other than, um, I guess the way I have chosen to respond to it to go back to another thing I said earlier, which is to try to create an environment where my students don't feel that way ever, um, to create a place where they can and design can be really tricky, right?

Because it's all about like, creating something that maybe feels really personal for a student and putting it out there and then everybody's like commenting on it, which can be really hard. So I just try to be careful about how I facilitate conversations around that and emphasize the fact that we're really here to support each other.

This is like a learning environment, um, as opposed to like, we're just going to rip work to shreds or, you know, I think conversation around the work we do as designers in the classroom is, is a really, um, important way of, of helping students, you know, Kind of understand how, um, feedback can really improve work.

Right. And, but then the other piece of it too, for me, is that, um, you know, it's interesting. Um, I actually had my dad as a professor, so my dad, uh, he's retired now, but he taught political science, African American history, Latin American history, international politics. So I, I had him for an African American history class.

And then, you know, ended up having to do an independent study with him to get all my credits to graduate. That's another story. Um, but he, we had a conversation once about my experience being his student, and my dad was a first generation college student and, you know, first one in his family. Um, And one of the things he said to me was, um, something along the lines of, you know, you're, you and your siblings have this benefit.

That when you are the only black student in a classroom that that that isn't a psychologically, um, that doesn't like, you know, that that isn't a terrifying place for you to be, um, or that is to say that doesn't prevent you from being able to engage in learning in that environment. Um, his, his comment.

Also being an admission that like that's how he felt in the classroom, right? Like he was very cognizant of the fact that he was a black student in a predominantly white setting, and that, you know, the fact that that my siblings. I never knew what it was like to feel paralyzed by the fear of not performing to the same level as my predominantly white peers.

Um, recognizing that as a, um, as a privilege that he didn't have. So, um, I don't know all this is like tied together for me and when I think about like, you know, the kind of environment that I want to create for their for other students. I, I think about those things, and I think about, you know, the students who are sitting way in the back.

Um, who maybe have their heads down who are like physically trying to shut down and say, don't even look my way. Um, that says to me that I need to make sure I'm doing a good job of making sure that those students feel, um, safe, that they feel comfortable, um, that they feel supported. So I don't know. It's about all of those things.

So I guess to get back to your original question, um, I never solved that for myself, but I have chosen to respond in a way that as an educator and even as now in this role of director to try to create environments where people feel supported, welcome, um, that they feel they can be, you know, open that they can make mistakes.

And I guess, again, you know, that's part of the reason why I'm okay admitting I don't know everything. Um, I feel that I have to, to be able to demonstrate, like, I mean, this is just who I am. Um, but also, To let people know that it's okay for them to also feel like they can ask questions and not feel like they have to know everything either.

Alaysia Brown: Yeah, I love this idea of like, be the fill in the blank that you wish you had. You know, I, I think that's like ridiculously powerful. So thank you for sharing that. Thank you for that question. Chris, can

Guest: I ask a follow up question?

Alaysia Brown: Yes, please. Sorry

Guest: to interrupt. Um, I'm curious about this student in the back.

That's fidgeting because I feel like that's so true, right? Students approach it at different comfort levels or communicate in different ways. Do you have any thoughts or advice on how you approach different students? Is it observation? Is it openness?

Anne H. Berry: So I think, well, I'll start by saying there was one specific student I had once who like, Literally was like curled up into themselves and, um, there isn't necessarily one approach.

I will say that one of the things I really try to to do in a, in classrooms is to make sure that everybody is participating in some way. You know, I think. Part of the challenge with, with, with critique is that, um, you know, especially if you're doing a big classroom critique, like, it's easy for, for students to kind of tune out.

Right. So I like having students work in small groups, but I also like. having protocols for them. So maybe everybody has to write something down in response to a question or write something down. If they're in a small critique group, they have to write some comments down so that everybody participates.

Um, because I think sometimes it's a matter of helping students understand that their, their ideas are still really valuable. Um, you know, I was, I was one of those students who, like, talked a lot, I think I've already mentioned that, but I recognize that not everybody Likes to talk, right? Or that, you know, sometimes it takes some students a little bit longer to really formulate their thoughts, but they still have like really important insights to share.

And I think sometimes it's easy, you know, being in the classroom to gravitate towards the students who seem more like physically engaged, who are speaking up, like, yeah, we want to like keep those, keep that energy and conversation going. But I've also learned over time that You know, sometimes it's the, it's the quiet student.

It's the one who maybe is like trying to hide, um, that actually has some interesting things to say, or if nothing else, I want to make sure they know that I see them, first of all, and that, you know, they, their comments are part of this larger conversation we're having as a class. And so it's, it's making sure that I, I'm trying to create space for everybody to, to have something to say.

Um, you know, I, I really try to learn students names. And I, I will call on students not as a way to like, really like single people out or put them on the spot, but as a way to say, like, what do you think about this? And, you know, I, even, even within the critique process, there's certain language that we use sometimes that students might not know or, you know, necessarily be comfortable with.

So I'll often, especially with students, maybe who are new to design. I'll, I'll try to say things like, just like in your own words, you know, that I'm not looking for a particular answer, but like, just what are your thoughts? And whatever they have to say, um, acknowledge that, that that's. You know, they've contributed something to the conversation.

So it's like building confidence, right? So that they are maybe less hesitant. I also try to, like, get students to talk to each other. I think this goes back to that thing about community support and Um, I really, it sounds cheesy to say it, but I really want them to find some of that with each other, because I think that, again, when you're alone, or feeling alone, let's say, um, the antidote to that is to at least have one friend, or one person that you're sitting next to, um, and even if you aren't friends outside of class, like in class, Maybe you continue to sit next to each other.

Maybe you start talking to each other that already, you know, that creates a kind of support, um, That will hopefully keep students tethered, right? Um, so yeah,

Guest: thank you so much.

Alaysia Brown: I love that. Just listening to you talk about how you like me, ask certain questions like when you ask certain questions, you might say like in your own words.

It reminds me of this quote that is like diversity is being invited to the party inclusion is being asked to dance. And it sounds like you're asking everyone in your classroom to dance. And. That is huge. You know, that's the difference in someone saying, I think I'll take my hoodie off today while she's talking, you know, so I, I'm just, I'm dying to sit in a, in a, a class of yours at this point.

Anne H. Berry: Absolutely. Like I'm, I'm getting a little like teary eyed, even just thinking about some of these moments, um, that I've had with students where I, I recognize the moment where they like feel valued, right? And I don't, I'm not taking, I don't want to take absolute credit for that, but I'm trying to facilitate something, right?

I want them to feel more confident. Um, because, you know, not everything students produce is great and wonderful and, and perfect maybe in the way that I, I might want, or then the way they might want, but in some ways that's kind of beside the point. Um, but yeah, I have, even in my last few years at CSU, my teaching shifted away from like content, let's say, or like, here are all the things about type you need to know, and more towards, um, conversations, facilitating conversations with students about their work.

Um, If, if that distinction is kind of clear, like it's, it's less like me just trying to like communicate information and you're going to remember it as a student and more about let's, let's have some conversations about the things that you've created. And, um, anyway, yeah.

Alaysia Brown: Yeah.

Chris DeSantis: Alaysia, we've got a question from David who Lauren is addressing, but would like to hear from Anne in the chat.

Uh, David is a student double major. Hello. Um, at, uh, UIC and, uh, and he's a student mentor for upcoming freshmen. Uh, he says many of my peers and I are often find ourselves discussing this lack of community among students after class hours. Uh, and he says, hearing you speak so passionately about community and curiosity is truly amazing.

I wanted to ask, how would you approach, encourage, uh, or, and, and, or encouraging students to build community after class hours that might often be discouraged by the fact that many of them are commuters? And, and, uh, Laura, Lauren responded, thank you, Lauren, with about, uh, Soph is in the atrium. Um, anything else?

So I

Anne H. Berry: think the tricky thing about this question is and thank you for your thank you for your question. David is that community. I mean, it's a, it's an idea. Right. Um, and so it holds. It holds power, if I can use that word, in a number of ways. Whether you're in a physical, sharing a physical space with somebody, or miles apart from them.

So I'll mention again, the Black experience in design, like the experience of being in a pandemic, like physically isolated from people. And yet connecting over issues that we really cared about. So, um, the short answer to your question, David, is I don't know. Um, but I think that, I mean, you have sometimes you just have to try things and kind of see, kind of see how people respond.

So I think. Um, but I would also say, you know, sometimes you just kind of have to do and try and and make right. So, um, in order to foster a greater sense of community. And yes, like, coming from Cleveland State, we had sort of similar challenges because we were, you know, we had a lot of students who were commuters.

I will say that the AIGA student group was one way. To bring students together to help forge that community. Um, the student group at Cleveland State meets once a week. So there's always that there's that regular schedule. Um, they've done studio tours. They've done other things outside of like scheduled them outside of the class.

Um, I mentioned that 1 thing in particular, because I think without it. Um, students wouldn't form those bonds. Um, and even if, you know, they have a Facebook page and all of the things, Instagram account, um, as a way to help reach students who might not necessarily be able to make it to their regular meetings, but I think I actually think the AIGA student group was really the way.

So the question is what, you know, what works at CSU might not necessarily work at another place. But it might be just a matter of like, just asking people like, like getting a, um, a critical mass of students who maybe feel some similarly. It sounds like you've already maybe kind of done that. Um, like, what would you like to have happen?

When you think about community, what does that mean to you? Does it mean being in a physical space together? Um, and just like visiting informally? Does it mean organizing events together? Um, like, so I think part of it is like, what, what is, What is the aspect of community that is missing for you, um, in terms of like interactions?

Um, and then, you know, I'm certainly, I'm, you know, obviously I'm at a position to, to help, to, to help. Um, but I think it begins from the ground up, like it begins with all of you and saying, Um, here, like, here are the things that we feel like we're missing, but you also, by voicing that, have to be willing to do some of the work as well, right?

Um, I created communities around me because I felt the loss of it in myself, and I'm, I feel like I can now benefit from that work of like connecting to people and now those connections have, I mean, those connections have become exponential. Um, and I don't want to make it sound as though I really had to do everything myself, but, but it took me kind of initiating some things to really try to build collaborations and connections.

So I think that's part of it. Like community is not just going to right. Um, sometimes it happens organically, but, but not always. And so. Some of the questions to think about is, okay, like people are commuting. So, um, are there places, times when, um, everybody that wants to be, to wants to build, facilitate community is on campus together?

Um, if it's not, if we can't be on campus together, what are some other things that we could potentially do to connect? Um, even if it's through technology, even if it's through zoom, maybe that's not as ideal as being in person, but maybe that's at least a place to start. Um, and I will say, I think having planned events, um, is, is one way to help foster some of that.

Alaysia Brown: Yeah, I'm a huge fan of if it, if it does not exist, build it. And if you need it, someone else needs it. So I want to make sure that we end on time, but I have one last question for you. And before I ask that I have to ask one last time, does anyone have anything that they'd like to ask and

cool. So the last question for you, Ann is. When we talked, you mentioned this and I loved it. You were like, I come from humble beginnings and now I have this title and there's so much that happened in between, you know, this title and, and those in my years in design. And so my question from, for you is, With you coming from humble beginnings and now holding this prominent role at UIC, how do you stay grounded and why is it important for others to remember their roots as they advance in their careers?

Anne H. Berry: Yeah, and just for context for those of you who are listening, um, Part of the reason this came up in the conversation was, you know, we were, I was sort of talking about how oftentimes it's, it's easy to focus on what somebody has accomplished, um, as opposed to really, really looking at the trajectory of their career.

There have been a lot of failures and, you know, pitfalls and challenges. And so this particular position and this particular title, um, seems. may seem kind of fancy, um, but the fact of the matter is that I, you know, I, I feel really, uh, privileged and blessed to have, um, had colleagues and peers and friends who are really smart, really accomplished people.

And so, In terms of staying grounded, that's how I stay grounded. That's how I stay grounded because I recognize I'm among a lot of brilliant people who are also just like good people. And so I don't, do I think I'm special? No, I don't think I'm special. I think that, um, I've tried to take advantage of opportunities.

Um, but I, and I, and I, yeah, of course I, I work hard. But but I also think there's a degree of luck in any success. Um, honestly, I think sometimes being in the right place at the right time. Um, I just want to be like forthright about that because as I said I, I know a lot of people who work really hard, who are brilliant in their own right, and haven't necessarily had the same opportunities.

Does that mean that I'm more special than they are? Absolutely not. Um, so I think it's just a matter of, of yeah, taking advantage of the opportunities that you have and really, again, so it's kind of cheesy and cliche, but it's so true, like really focusing on the things that you care about the most. Um, I'm I'm hope it's okay to say this like I'm less interested in in the title and more interested in what the opportunity is, and I feel really fortunate to be at this institution where I'm among people who are so accomplished and really smart and wonderful.

I'm still learning to know a lot of faculty and staff. I haven't really been able to meet many students, but. It's a privilege. It's a privilege. And I really want to make the most of this opportunity, um, to engage and, and learn from other people. So, yes, it's a leadership role, and that's really great. Um, but never for a minute am I, um, confused about the fact that, um, I'm one of many, and, um, I, I too, there's a lot I continue to learn from other people.

Um,

Alaysia Brown: And this has been so good. I honestly could talk for another hour, but I was told that we can only be here for 60 minutes. So I will shut it down. But thank you so much for sharing your experiences and your insights and your expertise. Um, your journey is inspiring and I'm sure audience has gained a lot from hearing your perspective.

And before we wrap up completely, do you want to drop your LinkedIn? Or any way that people can keep up

Anne H. Berry: with you? I'm, I'm basically, everything is like, at Anne H. Berry.

Alaysia Brown: Okay.

Anne H. Berry: The middle initial, so, um, Instagram, I'm, I don't really advertise the fact that I'm on Twitter, because I basically just am retweeting on Twitter, but I'm on Instagram.

I'm not really a Facebook person. Um, I don't know what my LinkedIn. I

Alaysia Brown: can drop your LinkedIn for you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Anne H. Berry: I was gonna say that, but I keep the H in there. Um, just on a side note, the H stands for my middle name, which is Hostetler, which is a middle name that I didn't like for a long time, but came to really appreciate.

So as a shout out to my Hostetler grandparents, um, the H is. Is present in my name, .

Alaysia Brown: Yes, I love it. I love it. Um, and then also I'm supposed to say as well, follow Diversify by Des by design. We're on LinkedIn, we're on Instagram, so definitely don't hesitate to follow Diversify by design. We'll be having another a MA October 10th at 6:30 PM Eastern with Cory Dingle, who is the director of UX and UI at Amazon Games.

So definitely excited for that conversation. Um. And that is it. You all. Thank you so much for meeting with us tonight. We had a blast and thank you. And yeah, we just can't wait to do that again. Do this again.

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